Maj. Gen. James E. Chambers Hazes Soldiers in his Command

Just a point of clarificaition: while I *could* be wrong about why the General was reassigned, it does seem fishy that he would leave a command where he had much responsibility and many subordinate commanders to one that is a directorship on a base that isn’t even of the Army. It just screams “quiet firing.”

I was in the Army the better part of two decades and I distinctly remember my training days where we would get a choice of “church services” on Wednesday evenings or normal duty in the barracks. This was basic training and the Chaplain’s office would “tempt” us with a movie, popcorn, and soda -sometimes pizza- in exchange for a short prayer and offer to attend church services on Sunday. I only ever went for the movie (watched Bill Murray’s “Stripes” and “Private Benjamin” during these movie nights and met some girls!).

I hadn’t begun thinking of myself as an “atheist” back then. I honestly never gave religion much thought at that point in my life. The payoff for me (movies, food, chicks) was worth a few minutes of prayer and sermon -which really was just a few minutes.

But the situations that these soldiers found themselves in was entirely different. They were forced-marched to the concert, made to feel they should participate or be thought of as different and unacceptable. They were ultimately treated differently and punished for their choice. Even in training environments like this (garrison training), soldiers have a certain quality of life and moral expectation.

Had the concert not occurred, the evening would have been business as usual. Most likely, some soldiers had their own cleaning assignments and responsibilities. They would likely have personal time between evening meals and lights out to do this, answer emails, talk with family and friends on the phone, visit the PX, get hair cuts, perhaps even attend a movie.

Also, it’s the chaplain’s office that’s responsible for organizing “spiritual” activities, not the commander’s office. The installation commander’s place, according to AR 600-20, is to ensure Equal Opportunity policies are being upheld. That soldiers are being treated fairly with regard to race, religion, etc; that soldiers are not being hazed or initiated unwillingly or willingly, into any in-groups, be they official or unofficial groups.

Sorry. It happened

“Chambers begins the next chapter of his career as the director of logistics at the U.S. Army Central Command, MacDill Air Force Base, Fla.”

http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/06/17/41006-first-scoe-commander-leaves-legacy/

You might be right, and I said I may be wrong in an earlier comment. But it doesn’t smack of a promotion to me. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is a stepping-stone to a third star. Hopefully, however, he’ll have a blight on his record after Mikey Weinstein is done filing legal actions. At the very least it demonstrates poor judgment. And we hardly need a “born-again” who thinks he answers to a higher authority than his chain of command making logistics or command decisions with soldiers lives on the line.

Are you saying you’re in his command? That’s the only way Jim Chambers would be in your leadership.

Are you saying you don’t believe he forced non-Christians and unwilling Christians to be subjected to a religious concert? Are you suggesting that 80+ soldiers concocted the story? If so, then one is left to wonder what would be so wrong with his leadership that soldiers would be willing to invent such a story. So, either the claim is true, that Chambers hazed his troops by ignoring their rights to Equal Opportunity under U.S. Army Regulations, or he is so fouled up and his troops distrust and/or hate him enough that 80+ soldiers got together and concocted a plan to discredit him. Either way, it should be bad for Chambers.

But its a sad and distasteful thing that we have people like Jim Chambers whose superstition runs so deep that they think its okay to disregard Army Regulations and ignore soldiers’ rights to Equal Opportunity, particularly when such people are in positions as high in the military hierarchy as Chambers. Only someone equally deluded by this sort superstition could feel secure in knowing that someone who puts more trust in an imaginary being than his own organizations regulations; who has more loyalty to superstition than the Constitution -would think it great to have someone like Chambers in charge of an army.

Oh, and thanks for the blessings, but they’re unnecessary and a waste of time. Your appreciation is enough for me to continue doing the good work I do.

I agree that his transfer wasn’t any sort of demotion. Initially, it looked strange in the wake of what happened but I regret pointing it out now since so many have concluded it was a demotion. I also agree that had he been an atheist interfering with “christian concerts” that he would rightfully been attacked. The problem isn’t that religious concerts were held under his command on his base; rather, it is that the soldiers in his command were compelled to attend or be punished. Non-christians were made to feel, or were presented as, inferior to soldiers of a particular cult of christianity.

Essentially, he hazed his troops and ignored the Army’s equal opportunity regulations (I cited the regs in the post above). I’m a retired NCO from the army and, had this been a case where race were involved, rather than religion or creed, he would have been reprimanded.

one either hates or loves.

Or neither. It is possible to be ambivalent to your gods. In much the same way one can be about Voldemort or Ahab. Still, I admit, as a former soldier, my frustration and dismay with military leaders who abuse their positions to proselytize their superstitions on their troops. To impose their cult beliefs on others.

What is the harm? The harm insulting those Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, and atheists who would otherwise choose not to listen to messages of hell and damnation being spewed at them as indentured celebrants, punished with restriction and labor for choosing to avoid a celebration that goes either against their own superstitions or sense of reason. People are entitled to their superstitions. They aren’t entitled to impose them on others against their will.

If one looks at the “heart” and motives of this general, and find anything but selfish, superstitious intent, then they’re as blind and ignorant as he. He is no more entitled to thrust his crap down the throats of non-believing soldiers than a Muslim general would be to force a predominantly Christian unit to an Islamic celebration. A celebration designed to proselytize the Muslim superstition.

Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me you’d agree with a Muslim general in the US Army doing the same thing with the superstitions reversed.

I’d be interested in seeing a news article link that describes this. If, indeed, my characterization was wrong, I’ll gladly post a retraction appropriate to how wrong I was.