Comments on: Faith-Based Initiatives: Do They Work? http://breakingspells.net/faith-based-initiatives-do-they-work/ Examining the Phenomenon of Religion Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:10:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: ylooshi http://breakingspells.net/faith-based-initiatives-do-they-work/comment-page-1/#comment-2731 ylooshi Wed, 13 Oct 2010 05:37:49 +0000 http://breakingspells.net/?p=222#comment-2731 Faith-based programs like AA <i>most definitely</i> require acceptance of the Christian god. For example, step 3 of AA states, "[m]ade a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." If this isn't the Christian god, what god might it be? I doubt they have Ptah or Quetzacoatl in mind. In fact, if you took out all the steps that involve the Christian god, AA's 12 step program would be reduced to five, which you could even further simplify to admit your mistakes, seek to right the wrongs you made, and keep doing right. If you don't do every step, including the 7 that include the Christian god, can a recovering alcoholic be considered to have completed AA? AA's dropout rate has been cited at 95% ((McIntire, Don (2000) "How Well Does A.A. Work? An Analysis of Published A.A. Surveys (1968-1996) and Related Analyses/Comments." <i>Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly</i>, 18(4).)) and, then, what they do is claim a 50% success rate of the remaining 5% -a success rate that I've yet to see substantiated by any 3rd party audit. Other faith-based organizations (not all) are likewise notorious for the same practices: requiring acceptance of the Christian god to complete the program, only measuring the successes of completions not overall attendees, and not allowing third-party audits. Faith-based programs like AA most definitely require acceptance of the Christian god.

For example, step 3 of AA states, “[m]ade a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him.” If this isn’t the Christian god, what god might it be? I doubt they have Ptah or Quetzacoatl in mind.

In fact, if you took out all the steps that involve the Christian god, AA’s 12 step program would be reduced to five, which you could even further simplify to admit your mistakes, seek to right the wrongs you made, and keep doing right.

If you don’t do every step, including the 7 that include the Christian god, can a recovering alcoholic be considered to have completed AA?

AA’s dropout rate has been cited at 95% ((McIntire, Don (2000) “How Well Does A.A. Work? An Analysis of Published A.A. Surveys (1968-1996) and Related Analyses/Comments.” Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly, 18(4).)) and, then, what they do is claim a 50% success rate of the remaining 5% -a success rate that I’ve yet to see substantiated by any 3rd party audit.

Other faith-based organizations (not all) are likewise notorious for the same practices: requiring acceptance of the Christian god to complete the program, only measuring the successes of completions not overall attendees, and not allowing third-party audits.

]]> By: Patricia Oswalt http://breakingspells.net/faith-based-initiatives-do-they-work/comment-page-1/#comment-2716 Patricia Oswalt Tue, 12 Oct 2010 04:33:11 +0000 http://breakingspells.net/?p=222#comment-2716 Faith based programs, like AA do not force anyone to accept the Christian God. Jesus is never mentioned in any of their literature. They do believe, however, that you must rely on your higher power. This higher power is left undefined and you are free to define it however best suits you. As for faith based programs having their dirty little secrets; AA, for one, makes it very clear that an alcoholic is never fully recovered. Hence why they refer to themselves as "recovering alcoholics". It is a continuous, life-long struggle with the addiction. And may I ask, Chaplain, what other FREE group therapy would you suggest and what are their recidivism rates? How, who and whether or not you choose to worship is certainly your own business. The same is to be said for who you decide to vote for. But before attacking an organization, simply because it is faith-based, you might want to make sure you know a little something about it. Faith based programs, like AA do not force anyone to accept the Christian God. Jesus is never mentioned in any of their literature. They do believe, however, that you must rely on your higher power. This higher power is left undefined and you are free to define it however best suits you. As for faith based programs having their dirty little secrets; AA, for one, makes it very clear that an alcoholic is never fully recovered. Hence why they refer to themselves as “recovering alcoholics”. It is a continuous, life-long struggle with the addiction. And may I ask, Chaplain, what other FREE group therapy would you suggest and what are their recidivism rates?

How, who and whether or not you choose to worship is certainly your own business. The same is to be said for who you decide to vote for. But before attacking an organization, simply because it is faith-based, you might want to make sure you know a little something about it.

]]> By: the chaplain http://breakingspells.net/faith-based-initiatives-do-they-work/comment-page-1/#comment-622 the chaplain Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:54:59 +0000 http://breakingspells.net/?p=222#comment-622 The dirty little secret - which I'm sure you suspect strongly - is that the recidivism rate for people who complete faith-based programs, for drug addictions, for example, is very high. Organizations will cite completion rates, but they won't cite the number of repeat enrollees in their programs - in other words, people who completed the program, fell off the wagon and needed a do-over (or 2 or 3 do-overs). That's just one indicator that the effects of such programs are often short-lived. Another fault with some faith-based programs is lousy follow-up. Some people may complete the program and move on, but are later found living on the streets again, etc. The dirty little secret – which I’m sure you suspect strongly – is that the recidivism rate for people who complete faith-based programs, for drug addictions, for example, is very high. Organizations will cite completion rates, but they won’t cite the number of repeat enrollees in their programs – in other words, people who completed the program, fell off the wagon and needed a do-over (or 2 or 3 do-overs). That’s just one indicator that the effects of such programs are often short-lived. Another fault with some faith-based programs is lousy follow-up. Some people may complete the program and move on, but are later found living on the streets again, etc.

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